Back and Forth on Feminism vs. MRAs


putmeincoach:

janersm:

putmeincoach:

janersm:

shaeroden:

papa-and-the-sea:

shaeroden:

papa-and-the-sea:

shaeroden:

draumbouy:

papa-and-the-sea:

draumbouy:

soyeahitsdevin:

mankindglobalmedia:

No, that’s the Feminism you wish to convey. The one at the top is the Feminism that we encounter.

No, the one on the top is the one that is noticed. Radicalism is always easier to notice than fair minded social justice.

NO THATS THE ACTUAL FUCKING FEMINISTS. 

ya know id think you people would actually do some goddman research once in a while to look into feminism and the current leaders and the roots of its political birth.

currently feminists are royally fucking men over in court among other things these arent radicals. these are college educated feminists with law degrees and womens studies degrees doing literally everything they can to fuck men over. not some stupid teenage misandry4lyfe bitch on tumblr, though that is also problematic.

and nobody is trying to stop them. and you saying “not all feminists” doesn’t mean shit. nobody fucking cares about your stupid blog. you aren’t doing anything. you’re just spewing rhetoric and acting like it excuses the connotation and association you have with psycho bitches. what people care about is that you chose to take up the banner of a hate movement without even remotely researching it to find out wether it was a good idea. people care about the stuff that the real politically active feminists do. people care when valerie solanas a feminist revolutionary writes books about gendercide and attempts to assassinate andy warhol. of course you probably have no idea what the fuck im even talking about because you didn’t do your research.

you dont know what the fuck you are talking about and you side with a hate movement that had roots in white supremacy

if you dont like the shit a political party does stop defending it and leave the party. you choose to be a feminist instead of an egalitarian or what have you. you’re choice sucked and we are tired of hearing you defend it.

shut up.

Ahh another idiot who just believes anything they hear and believes fucking Bullshit CONGRATULATIONS

I linked everything to a list of proof…..this is kinda awkward for you.

if the above image were true, feminists would have no problems at all with the men’s right’s movement.

i have yet to see any feminist express any sympathy for the MRM.

Why would amyone show sympathy for people who have EVERY right but are working to somehow get more?

> “men have every right”

> “men want more rights”

can you even math?

Yes you just proved how stupid MRAs are because there are no more rights they can even have.

oh yeah.  men have all the rights, huh?

you mean like the right to not have our dicks sliced open shortly after birth?

you mean like the right to refuse to sign up for selective service?

you mean like the right to custody of our own children?

oh yeah.  so many rights.  i’m just about drowning in them.

Stop blaming feminism for Selective Service, circumcision, custody rights, etc.

Male circumcision? Did you realize that “feminist friendly” countries have already banned it? Yep. Don’t believe me? Check out Scandinavian countries.

Don’t want to be drafted one day? (Even though the draft hasn’t been enforced in about 40 years. Odd how feminists who weren’t even around in the 70s get blamed for this and other shit.) Tell your Congressional representative. The Congress is predominantly a Republican institution right now. Explain to an anti-women’s rights political party that you feel your rights as a man are being violated because women aren’t being drafted. I’m sure they’d be willing to swap it over to women being forced to sign up if you do that. By the way, when Carter originally reactivated the conscription process, he said it should apply to women as well as men. Congress said no. Clinton also tried to include women. Guess what happened?! Congress. Said. No. So blame fucking Congress for that.

As for what does the MRM do that goes against feminism:

Supporting 2013’s House version of the VAWA is the first thing I can think of. I know the name throws some MRAs off, but the House version would have stripped the rights of abused people and strengthened those accused of DV. This included taking rights from male victims.

Advocating against rape shield laws. Not only would this have publicized the sexual history of female accusers, it would have publicized the sexual history of male accusers as well.

Denying the wage gap. I’ve seen some acknowledgement that there is racial pay inequity, but no real acknowledgment by MRAs that even amongst different racial groups, men still make more.

Custody rights are unfair. Despite numbers that show they aren’t the gender biased issue that many think they are. Most men don’t seek custody of their kids. (Sad, but true.) And in cases where they do, men being awarded primary or sole custody is more common now than it has been in a long time. Also, protective divorces and lack of custody can be a result of domestic violence.

Being completely opposed to child support. I have seen so many MRAs complain about paying child support and then talking about how their greedy bitch of an ex won’t let them see the kid until they pay up. Here’s the thing you guys forget sometimes: child support is meant to take care of your kid. It is based on your salary and the cost of living where your child lives. It is not alimony. If your ex misuses it, tell the court, but do not complain about supporting your child.

Slut-shaming. If a woman supports free birth control pills, she’s a whore. If she talks about not being a virgin, she’s used up. If she wants to have sex, she’s a Jezebel. If she complains about being viewed this way, she’s a tease who likes to friend zone men. If she refuses sex, she’s a prude. If she wears a tank top, she’s a bimbo.* If she masturbates, she’s dirty. If she says she was raped, she just thinks it was bad sex.

And we are back to rape. MRAs have a tendency to suggest that women (as a group) like to lie about rape and sexual assault and abuse. Any woman who talks about having been raped meets one of these responses from MRAs: they regret the consensual sex, they were drunk, they were dressed like a sex worker, they asked for it, they let the person kiss them or take them into a private space, they’d had sex before so they didn’t have to consent this time, if it really happened they wouldn’t talk about it at all ever, their claim of PTSD is fake, no one “survives” a rape because it doesn’t threaten their lives—they’re just being whiny, they want attention, they should be happy the person wanted to rape them.

Opposition to laws banning marital and acquaintance rapes.

Denial of the existence of MRAs who do actually want to oppress women or who use domains to post personal details of feminists to FTSU.

Use ableist language against women with certain disabilities. Also failing to acknowledge the root causes of those issues and that they can also occur to men.

Men who’ve been raped are always raped by women. Most men who have been raped were raped by men.

Male victims of domestic violence are beaten by their wives or female partners. This disregards cases like Johnny Weir, where he attacked his husband.

Promoting traditional gender roles.

That’s it for now.

*The tank top thing comes from last week. I was called a bimbo and a narcissist because I support wearing weather appropriate clothes. It’s 1PM & 90°F here now, but this MRA told me that to wear shorts and a tank top would make me a narcissistic bimbo flaunting her goods at a guy she didn’t intend to sleep with.

Nothing but unfounded claims. Why am I not surprised?

“Nothing but unfounded claims.”

You think these are unfounded claims? Okay. Let’s check out some of the things I’ve said

Recommended by medical associations within Sweden and Denmark. In Sweden, it was recommended that boys should be at least 12 and consent to the procedure. In Denmark, non-medical circumcision of boys was compared to abuse and mutilation. Sweden’s medical association also said that circumcisions should only be performed by physicians in a medical facility. While the recommendation was non-binding, and the Swedish government is not going to ban the circumcision of Jewish and Muslim males, it is another step toward that eventually happening. There is already support of a ban of non-medical circumcisions by 87% of Danes polled on the matter. A ban was also recommended by the representatives of Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, and Greenland to Child Rights International Network, a group of pediatric experts. In 2012, an Israeli rabbi was arrested for performing the procedure in Germany. And last year in Australia, a ban was being considered by the Tasmanian Law Reform Institute. JTA, Huffington Post, CRIN, IB Times (AU), Patheos, The Daily Beast, SBS News, BMC Pediatrics

I’ll give you that an outright ban doesn’t exist in the countries, but it has been recommended and, in several, it has been socially unpopular for years.

Draft/conscription:

Selective Service System website’s page entitled ” BACKGROUNDER: WOMEN AND THE DRAFT IN AMERICA”

Also there’s this from USA Today:

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., has made several attempts during the past decade to reinstitute the draft on the grounds that a small fraction of U.S. citizens are bearing a disproportionate burden in fighting the nation’s wars. But his bills have gone nowhere.

That hasn’t stopped him from trying. Earlier this year, Rangel — who earned a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for Valor after volunteering for the Army during the Korean War — introduced another bring-back-the-draft bill that also would require women to register.

Three proposals of women being included in the draft? Let’s break them down by party

Democrats: 3

Republicans: 0

Further proof that Republicans are the non-equality party toward women in the military:

“We support the advancement of women in the military…[and] We support women’s exemption from direct ground combat units and infantry battalions.” (2012 GOP platform)

“To have women serving in infantry, though, could impair the mission-essential tasks of units. And that’s been proven in study after study, just from a matter of — it’s nature, upper body strength, and physical movements, and speed, and endurance, and so forth.” (Tom Cotton, R-AR)

And before you point out that right now women can serve in combat, I know this. It’s a recent development, but there is still a tendency of the GOP toward keeping women out of combat.

VAWA Act:

AVFM’s oppositional stance on the Senate reauthorization, National Coalition for Men’s letter to stop the Senate reauthorization, American Coalition for Fathers and Children on their opposition to it’s reauthorization—same post as the one from AVFM. Other articles from AlterNet, Patheos, Talking Points Memo, IB Times, Al-Jazeera America

The Senate version actually helps men:

the law itself

MRAs advocating against rape shield laws:

“With rape shield laws and their trampling of every defendants right to a fair trial, the law itself cannot be trusted. Indeed, even your fellow jurors, who can be assumed to be living unconsciously in the misandric matrix, and prepared to condemn men on accusation alone, cannot be trusted.” (That doesn’t sound very pro-rape shield to me. Does it to you?) Honey Badger Brigade also has a post on advocating against rape shield.

Rape shield laws also apply to male victims:

http://ift.tt/1lNuOLw

MRAs denying the wage gap exists/ignoring racial implications:

here, here, here

Race/gender gap does exist:

AAUW, IWPR, The Nation, Essence article on gap

Custody rights are unfair/the courts aren’t biased toward men:

According to Child Custody Made Simple:

  • 51% of cases are decided by the parents with no assistance
  • 29% settle without third party involvement
  • 11% went to mediation
  • 5% resolved differences after custody evaluation
  • 4% went to trial and 1.5% of those complete the trial
  • When decided on their own, 82% of mothers want sole custody to go to them, with 29% wanting it to go to fathers. 3% of mothers want sole custody to go to the fathers with 33% of fathers wanting that.15% of mothers and 35% want joint possession
  • With mediation, 63% of the time sole posession goes to the mother vs 43% when parents go to evaluation or trial. 6% of mediations end in sole custody going to the father while 11% get it in evaluation or trial. 25% result in joint custody for mediation while 40% do with trial or evaluation. Other results happen in 6% and %5 respectively.

Slate

MRAs blaming their evil exes:

“VAWA has been pivotal in the destruction of the family by depriving fathers of their civil rights, due process rights, and their right to cross-examine those who falsely accuse them of DV — most notably during divorce proceedings…With the restraining order in hand, the police remove the father from the home (often in the middle of the night) with nothing but the shirt on his back, order him to stay out of his home and away from his wife and children, and immediately begin paying child support to the woman who just “stole” his children and his home from him.”

MRAs saying women lie about abuse and rape, as well as rape apologism:

“VAWA most effectively destroys families through temporary Restraining Orders. Gone are the days when physical evidence of DV was required and cross-examination was permitted to help judges distinguish between false and true allegations. In today’s courts, a woman can allege to a judge (without the accused being present) that she was the victim of DV and is requesting a restraining order based on “expanded” definitions of DV. “Expanded” definitions include vague senses of discomfort, fears, and “Economic DV” (where the man did not fulfill the woman’s economic wants)…Judges virtually always grant VAWA restraining orders to women “just to be on the safe side” even when there is no tangible evidence of threat — just the woman’s non-verifiable internal purported feelings.”

“Think about the ramifications if this were allowed to happen: 1. Man and Woman Marry 2 Woman starts to spend all the money and cuts off sex and gets really bitchy all the time. 3. Woman starts to hang with the “girls” more and more, meets a bad boy and decides she is bored with her stupid kids and her husband. 4. Woman consults an attorney. 5. Attorney knows something called the “silver bullet” that will slice and dice that motherfucking husband in family court and ensure his client the “casa, cash and kids”. 6. Attorney tells his client all she needs to do is say two little words when she calls 911…….”I’m Afraid” 7. After those words are spoken, man is arrested, jailed for domestic violence, given a restraining order while in jail, (in a hearing that took place without him present the day before) and basically treated like a motherfucking boot licking bastard piece of shit whenever he appears in family or criminal court from that point forward. 8. Man hires an attorney. Attorney tells him NOT to plead in the domestic violence case until the divorce case is decided since a guilty plea in ANY form in criminal court will destroy his chances of being the father he was before the 911 call took place since he will be deemed a “danger” to the kids if family court finds out about his plea. 9. Man, after being fired from his job due to an allegation of domestic violence is now living with his parents and borrowing money from friends to get through the divorce case. The woman’s attorney knowing his situation drags out the divorce proceeding knowing that he will have to plead/go to trial in the DV case sooner or later and who the fuck cares? The man will get to pay his fees at the end of the divorce anyway.10. Man’s attorney also starts to drag out the divorce case and asks for another retainer of 5k to keep representing him in both the family court and domestic violence cases. Man is broke as a motherfucker, wife has his house and bank accounts so he begins to represent himself pro-se in both cases. 11. Knowing he is FUCKING FUCKED in both cases now, man pleads to the domestic violence case and gives his wife what she wants in family court just to get it FUCKING over with. 12. Unknowingly, man REALLY FUCKING FUCKED himself since now he has a domestic violence conviction on his record and he finds that finding a FUCKING job with that FUCKING plea he should have NEVER FUCKING taken in the first place is totally FUCKING HIM OVER really FUCKING bad in the employment arena. 13. Man, now without a job or the ability to find one since his is deemed a MOTHERFUCKING wife beater starts to fall behind on his “chalimony” and as a result the people who get paid to get that MOTHERFUCKING CHALIMONY are really starting to poke his MOTHERFUCKING ass…….they don’t seem to understand…..all he hears is the line from Goodfellas……….FUCK YOU, PAY ME. 14. Woman, now living comfortable in the house he paid for, driving the car he bought and spending the money he slaved to save brings bad boy after bad boy around the house to pound that pussy rotten and all of her friends say……”you go girl”…..(little does she know, 30 years from now, she will most likely be living alone in an apartment with 5 cats, overweight and bitter……..but for now the dick train is feelin fucking GREAT! Plus child services garnished half of his unemployment so it’s all good…… 15. Man meanwhile can’t find a motherfucking job since everyone thinks he is a motherfucking wife beater and all he thinks to himself morning, noon and night is Aint this a motherfucker get’s a knock on his door and is summoned to court to explain his lack of payment to his baby mama. 16. Man goes to court, no trial, no jury…….just a pissed of Judge that wants his MOTHERFUCKING money sentences him to 6 months in prison and also adds a felony to his record for disobeying a court order……..after he is handcuffed and lead to the holding cell……all he can think to himself is…….Aint this a MOTHERFUCKER. 17. Man goes to prison and is raped repeatedly by a big guy named Bubba and when he get’s out hangs himself rather then endure any more of his motherfucking life. Oh, Did I say that could happen earlier? Happens every day boys and girls……Now Ain’t THAT a Motherfucker…….”

“Voting not guilty on any charge of rape is the only way to remain faithful to the concept of presumed innocence. And any participation in the system as it stands, other than with the intent to undermine it as much as possible, is taking part in the destruction of that sacred presumption. If you are sitting on a jury hearing a case of rape, the only way to serve justice is to acquit.”

“This is where lying cunning women get to use their pussy privilege to destroy a man or men. And where any number of manginas/white knights out there who have hitched their blood money making schemes to this one bullshit crime, are ready to assist this woman in her hateful intent to carry out this crime.”

Opposition to paying child support, not paying for their kids:

“I feel the way court-ordered child support is handled in our culture is ridiculous, and is a really bad idea.Yes, no one should disobey the law, but the way child support is set up today immediately marginalizes fathers from the beginning. I refused to pay child support to my ex-wife. I would suggest to any man even remotely thinking about having a child that they understand the law as it is currently written in your state. If you don’t, you are putting yourself in a terrible position and possibly setting yourself up for financial ruin.It is truly risky having a child with a woman here in the United States…Child support has NOTHING to do with children. NOTHING!!!!!! It’s all about supporting and subsidizing mothers. It is all about the transfer or wealth from fathers to mothers. It is a system that does not take into consideration the accountability for how the money is spent to care for the children. It’s also a massive game between the Federal government and the states that is only getting more and more convoluted. It is a subsidy for single motherhood. I’m glad I stood up to the nonsense I saw in family court and did what I had to do to free myself of the financial slavery that state ordered child support really is. It’s time more men either understand the game before they get in it, or stop playing altogether.”

“Child Custody and Child Support is legal slavery for most men…Instead of giving joint physical legal custody to the parent that is most suitable (stable, loving, caring, financially fit), courts are bias and give welfare mothers the child while penalizing the father.My advice is: Fellas, Don’t Get Married and Never Impregnate a Women! It’s not worth it! Forget all that hype and talk about legacy. You alone, should be your legacy. Your legacy does not have to be generational blood lines.”

“More and more children are winning 50/50 shared custody, but the child support laws were written to assume that the lazier spouse who makes less money has sole custody. That is why it doesn’t matter if custody is 50/50 in some states. As more people experience, and/or learn, about the injustice of this system, there will be more impetus to pass new child support laws.”

“Child support is f-r-a-u-d, e-x-t-o-r-t-i-o-n and i-l-l-e-g-a-l in every way- both technically and morally. Child support is, as is alimony, f-r-a-u-d. It is a forced extraction of money for property that has been confiscated, is not in the possession of the victim. The property- the child- was confiscated and reappopriated by the state to the mother. The mother was an active participant in the confiscation of property. The father has had the property taken from him, and the state then coerces the father to pay for this property, after the state has removed the property from the possession of the father. This is a fraud. One cannot be charged for property that is not in their possession, property that the state has ruled is not in their possession. Child support is fraud and it is de facto extortion.”

“Child support subsidises family breakdown. What sort of man sponsors the breakup of his own family, and the fatherlessness of his own children?”

“I have refused to pay child support for my first daughter for 17yrs because her mom dropped me off on the side of the RR tracks and told me to hope a train out of her life she was cheating on me and ran me off cause I wasn’t good enough same thing happened to my second daughters mother I’m not paying for something I can’t see and be a part of its not fair”

“Quit hiding behind the supposed best interest of the child in order rationalize thievery. It is disgusting and immoral.”

Slut-shaming, victim-blaming, rape apologist talk, other random comments by MRAs:

“Clearly, we live in sickening culture which attempts to oppress sluts by forcing personal volition and self-responsibility on them.”

and btw, none of these girls even got raped. They are living in Canada where the rate of violent crime and specifically rape is among the lowest on the planet. They should go to Newark or Detroit and try dressing like sluts there and walk around late at night. I would like to see what kind of public support they get after actually getting raped on the streets.”

These feminazi’s already have the right to be sluts and do whatever they want no matter how disgusting it might be to their parents. But now they also want the right not to be blamed and labelled for it. Too bad bitches, you made your bed, now lie in it and get screwed. It’s all good though, we love screwing you. At least until you lose your looks. After that, there are always younger, hotter sluts and you will be one of those beer-drinking pot-bellied nasty sluts with HPV who no man will touch with a ten-foot pole.

“‘Women are taught to do everything from dressing not provocatively to never leaving your drink, to walking in groups- all common sense’ Women have always been taught, and yet never learn.”

“When prostitutes dress up to go to work to sell their ‘wares’…do they not wear revealing, skin tight, short, cleavage-push-up, tacky, ‘this-is-what-I’ve-got-for-you-baby’ clothing? And then there’s the normal self-respecting woman……………..wearing the same shit, but does not understand why she appears to be viewed as the same person? Give ME a fucking break. When a woman looks in the mirror, she knows what the fuck she looks like going out the door. And let’s go back to RAPE. It’s okay for a man to raped of all of his worldy possessions, his paycheck, his children, his self-esteem… by women who are in bed with the ultimate rapists….the family court system. AND let’s not forget the women that ACCUSE men of rape, and their lives are stolen from them, as they are put into jail…only to be truly, and viciously RAPED over and over again…FOR REAL because some skanky bitch decided to punish him, or ‘cover her ass’ from a mistake SHE made the night before.”

Women who dress in a sexually enticing manner need to realize that if they portray themselves as sex objects, then they will be treated like sex objects.”

“Flirting with girls used to be fun. It was harmless, a bit of a game and made both sexes feel good. Flirting is now illegal, men shy away fro it and prescriptions for anti-depressents are on the rise for women…”

“”Women aren’t useless sex objects…” Truth be told, that isn’t anything even close to what I was saying anyway. What I was saying was that women don’t offer men anything besides sex. I wish that wasn’t true,but it is. You’d be hard pressed to find,in all the history of women leaders, one thing that women offered men specifically and exclusively, yet until very recently, the rape laws in many places were worded in such a way that the law didn’t even recognize that men could be victims of it. In other words, they were created exclusively to protect women. Most things that men do are done exclusively for women, or for men,women,and children. This “only want one thing” thing is just a pet peeve of mine. To this day, nobody has been able to sufficiently explain to me just what the hell that’s supposed to mean. I’m sure men would take other things if women offered them,but they don’t, and they bitch about offering the one thing that they do offer,like it’s some kind of grand gift and a heavy burden to them to provide. Women should be grateful that men “only want one thing”, it sounds to me like women wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if men asked for anything else.”

“Take all of women’s accomplishments out of the picture. What would you be left with? A world without windshield wipers.”

“What else are men supposed to want from women? They have nothing to give,besides sex and children, that we can’t do ourselves. And, as women have sufficiently demonstrated to me, and most other men, they won’t even provide that without making impossible demands, charging exorbitant prices or a fuckload of bitching about how men “only want one thing”. Women don’t fucking provide anything else! What the fuck are we supposed to want? Why the fuck would we approach women for something we could make or do for ourselves? I know there’s exceptions to all of this but in general, women produce nothing.They have nothing to offer but sex and children.”

Ableism/discarding of a mental health issue that impacts abuse victims, including men

Should I go ahead and back up the other claims or do you realize that I have made a good faith effort to prove that I’m not a liar? By the way, the link in each quote takes you to the exact place where the comment was made. (Permalinking is fun.)

Why am I not surprised a fat chick spends the majority of her time slandering MRAs?

Uh-huh. You don’t know what slander means, do you? Lucky for both of us, I do. “A false statement, usually made orally, which defames another person. Unlike libel, damages from slander are not presumed and must be proven by the party suing.” Now, as I have been more than willing to provide foundation for the claims that have been made, including links to exactly where such statements can be found, I would love to hear how what I said could be construed as a false statement. Oh, that’s right. They can’t be. You can’t prove slander if the person is using the truth to defame you.

As for the fat chick remark, it would be nice to have one MRA not resort to that sort of cheap shot. I just have to assume that you’re not prepared to refute and decided to go negative. Buh-bye now.

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About Janet Morris

I'm from Huntsville, Alabama. I've got as many college credits as a doctorate candidate, and the GPA of some of them, too. I have a boss by the name of Amy Pond. She's a dachshund. My parents both grew up in Alabama.