(More tweets like this can be found here.)
Twitter has become such a drama pit lately.
I made the mistake of pointing out to a Men’s Rights person that though suicides by men happen 4x’s as often as suicides by women, the attempt rate by women is actually 3x’s higher.1 This led to her telling me that I hate men and am okay with their deaths.2 When I tried to explain that that wasn’t true, she kept going on and on about how I just didn’t care about men dying. Eventually I had to resort to the tactic that I use when I’m afraid and in an uncomfortable situation, I started just basically smiling and nodding and expressing how I understood her perspective and agreed with it.34
Of course, she had posted that I said I was cool with their deaths, so I was inundated with MRAs calling me names and telling me that women were horrible. I even got one who said that scratching at your wrist shouldn’t be considered a real suicide attempt. This guy went on to ridicule borderlines and say that we5 were all whiny women6 and that the solution was to “just zap them silly and scramble their brains like a soup. Or, do an old fashiond lebotomy [sic] on them.” He said that there was not any other method of treating us.7 When he found out, at the end of all of his borderline ranting, that I had been diagnosed with BPD over a decade ago, he called me a crazy asshole.8 I ended up blocking him.9
I had another guy tell me that women who attempted suicide were drama queens; and a few of the people suggested that women who try suicide or who self-harm were somehow deserving of less respect.10 The female attempts = drama queens guy also said I didn’t understand mental illness, as did a few of the other people.11
The cause of suicide that was listed by the MRAs? Divorce and alimony.12 Part of me wondered if they were including the suicides that are part of a murder-suicide in that, because I’ve seen a lot of “they were getting divorced, so he took matters into his own hands” stories about that has happened.13 Another part wondered why it was okay to call people with BPD and other issues that lead to suicidality in women “drama queens” for their attempts, when their disorders can be caused by abusive childhoods, chemical imbalances in their brains, etc., but that no one recognized how killing oneself as a reaction to a divorce might be considered a bit melodramatic. Before anyone launches into a “how dare you suggest their pain isn’t real” type spiel, I get why they do it. I understand why divorce can lead to suicide. I understand that grieving a loss increases a person’s risk of suicide. I just feel a little odd paying respect to one person’s grief while dismissing the fact that anyone who chooses to harm themselves (in any way) has something that is making them feel like their life is no longer worth living. This is not a game of whose pain is more real. This is talking about a decision that some people make because their pain is so real for them that they see no way out. It is not something where people should be thumbing their noses as other sufferers over. A divorced person’s pain is no greater or less than the pain of someone who was beaten as a child or of someone who saw their friends die in combat or whose beloved family member or friend or pet died or whose business burned down.
The hatefulness of some of the people compounded with the fact that I actually went to my Seeking Safety group this week was a bit triggering, but I got through it.
By Friday, I was muting most of the users who were sending rude tweets, which made things more tolerable.
On Saturday, a troll sent some rather fucked up messages because I posted a link to this post from Tumblr. He was saying things like “all mass murderers/serial killers are homosexual btw. look it up. they probably react that way because they are told to repress homosexual feelings.” I pointed out that I happen to like learning about serial killers, so I knew that claim was bullshit and he told me, “you need to do more studying. repressed sexual instincts and emotions can lead to some serious mental health problems. even in women.” Freud would be so proud of him for spewing that, as would Marvin, the physician’s assistant for a psychiatrist14 I never actually saw, that tried to convince me that my hallucinations and self-injury were part of my being a sexually frustrated sixteen/seventeen year old.15 He also ended up being muted.
At some point late Saturday night or early Sunday morning, someone else decided to bring up that feminists were responsible for terrorist threats against men’s rights movement. This led to the first MRA person to end up calling all feminists terrorists.16 I pointed out that this was hypocritical because she (and other MRAs) have said that you can’t link Elliot Rodger to their movement because he held beliefs that were inconsistent with their particular brand of Men’s Rights activism. If all MRAs cannot be held responsible for the action of one guy, then all feminists can’t be held responsible for the acts of some feminists. To believe that one bad apple can’t spoil their movement, but that one bad apple can spoil ours is hypocrisy. She called me a liar for that.17 So I told her how I felt.18 I also told her that I was not amused by some of her other behavior with regard to mental health issues.19 Basically, I told her that she has her own personal double standards when it comes to extremism.20 I have muted her for for now, but I’m now trying to decide if I want to block this person or not.
And, early this morning, this other guy sent me a tweet about how men commit suicide in India more often than women do. Experts suggest that the rate is between 1.3-1.5 men kill themselves in India for every woman that kills herself. That’s either 4:3 or 3:2 or, basically, neck-and-neck. And usually the rate has to do with poverty. I brought that up. He gave me stories of women who have abused the dowry laws there. I told him that India had a long history of human rights violations when it came to women. He told me that the media was wrong about that. He said gender equality wasn’t possible and feminism21 had brainwashed me, but that society should instead get back to a family system because “nothing can reaplace [sic] happy family.” He accused me of ignoring the bitter truth and other random crap. I tried to be really nice to him, but it was difficult because most of what he said was in rather incoherent txtspeak. I know that there’s the whole 140 character limit, but txtspeak is annoying. Very, very annoying. Eventually, I had to tell him to just shut up because I was tired of the links and tired of trying to decipher what he said. At least this will give him the chance to brag about finding an angry man-hating feminist on Twitter.22
And, as I wrote this, she who stands up for the MRM started tweeting again. And, of course, I’m still a liar. She’s said this despite my providing links to show her that I might actually know what the fuck I’m talking about.23 Apparently, I suck because I didn’t call out other feminists for saying she deserved a lobotomy before I even knew she existed, which is her justification of why she didn’t call out the other person for their saying borderlines deserved it, despite being mentioned in the tweet.24 She also doesn’t know what BPD is. Why would favorite tweets disparaging that particular illness if you didn’t know what it was? That makes the kind of sense that doesn’t. I’m pretty sure that blocking is the only solution at this point.
Moral of the story? I’m a big fan of the muting feature on Twitter. Also, hypocrisy is bad, ableism sucks, don’t get information from biased sources, incidental stories about reversed situations don’t disprove scholarly research, saying I don’t understand mental illness pisses me off, ignorance is horrible, and, if you piss me off, I can screen capture your shittiness like a boss.
Never said either thing. Don’t believe either thing. ↩
This is difficult on Twitter, since there’s the whole actually having to communicate with words issues. I did it anyway. I can handle a challenge. ↩
This is also known as a survival skill. That I have had to learn how to employ it on the Internet says a lot. ↩
At this point, he was unaware of my borderline-ness. ↩
I’ve seen some clinicians say that 25% of BPD patients are men. Others say it’s closer to 50/50. ↩
Good times. ↩
Much. Better. Times. ↩
Okay then. ↩
That made me laugh. A lot. ↩
I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying something snarky. I deserve a gold star for succeeding. ↩
These are the “if I can’t have you, nobody will” cases, which is aka Male Entitlement. ↩
This would be the psychiatrist whose wife was murdered almost two year priors to my becoming his patient. I was happy to never be in the same room with him by myself. I hadn’t known at first who he was when I’d met him shortly after his wife’s death. He just always made me uncomfortable. He was one of the few doctors that took my insurance, though, so… ↩
Once I told my mom what he’d said, she helped me find a I wonder if he took that directly from the Family Research Institute’s page that attempts to link violence with being gay or if he came to the conclusion on his own. ↩
The feminism leads to rapes and suicide is from divorce one. ↩
And you know how I love that. ↩
@KristalDGarcia Whether you like it or not, PUAhate folks get grouped with the MRM. Just like: whether I like it or not, women who threaten MRM events get grouped with feminists. It’s similar to how abortion clinic bombers are grouped with the pro-life movement. People who claim to espouse similar beliefs to a certain group end up being grouped with that particular group. This happens with political movements, rights movements, religious groups, etc. It doesn’t mean it’s fair or right. It’s just what happens.
I’m a feminist and I believe in having equal rights for all persons, which is the basic principle of feminism. I don’t believe in violence, but because some people who do and who claim to be a part of a movement that promotes equality of genders end up threatening an event, I still get labeled a terrorist by you for supporting feminism.
You’re a MRA. You believe that men are held back by society, while women are not and that that needs to change. Elliot Rodger ended up killing and injuring people because he had that same belief, except that his belief was on an extreme level. Do you understand how his extremist belief is impacting the perception of your movement?
As for calling me a liar, no. I haven’t lied about any of this, but I get it. I get that it makes you feel better to call me a liar. Just like it probably made you feel better the other day to say that I didn’t care about men dying. And that’s okay. If it makes you feel better to do that sort of thing, then that’s fine with me.
@KristalDGarcia BTW – You didn't stand up for people with BPD the other day when a fellow MRA suggested that we deserved lobotomies or
— Janet Morris (@janersm) June 1, 2014
@KristalDGarcia ECT treatment. Or that our attempts at suicide were somehow not important. You also didn't tell him that there are
— Janet Morris (@janersm) June 1, 2014
@KristalDGarcia men who have been diagnosed with the disorder and face a certain stigma because of it. Maybe you should have done that.
— Janet Morris (@janersm) June 1, 2014
Also, about the BPD thing, in which she starred some of the negative remarks the guy made, that she wasn’t doing her “job” as an activist for men if she was dismissing that the disorder has a significant percentage of patients who are male. ↩
He also said feminism had an evil mask. ↩
This is sarcasm. Sort of. I’m not angry or man-hating, but I was annoyed and let him know it, so he may think I’m both. ↩
@politicalcynic @KristalDGarcia Actually, there are studies that back that up. One being the study that the 4x’s the men commit suicide data came from. http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/chwe/austen/murphy.pdf
The data from the study is mentioned on AFSP: http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures
Similar information was stated in a study regarding suicidality of physicians http://journals.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=173846
Young women are actually believed to have a higher rate of suicidal ideation, too. Crosby AE, Han B, Ortega LAG, Parks SE, Gfoerer J. Suicidal thoughts and behaviors among adults aged ≥18 years-United States, 2008-2009. MMWR Surveillance Summaries 2011;60(no. SS-13).
And people who attempt are mentioned as being more likely to have a “successful” suicide at some point, which indicates suicide survivors (regardless of gender) are at a higher rate of actually committing suicide at some point. http://journals.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=176692
Do as I say, not as I do. ↩