(by Kara E)
However, all of them know that murder is not Ok. Just because they won’t have to go through what a woman will, doesn’t mean their opinions don’t count. Abortion is simply wrong, in my opinion. You put yourself in the situation, and now you’re taking a baby’s life in order to get yourself out of the consequences. How could you even argue that is right? (insert comment here about a woman who gets pregnant because of a rape. or insert comment here about a woman getting an abortion because she won’t survive labor) Neither of those are suitable excuses, in my opinion, either.
Hate me all you want, abortion is not Ok.
WAIT A FUCKING SECOND.
A woman who chooses to get an abortion because of rape/incest or because she won’t survive is not a “suitable excuse”?
You said that you were opposed to it because the woman was putting herself in the situation, y?
- Can you really ever say that a woman puts herself in a situation to be raped? No woman goes out and says, “Hey, I think I’ll get raped today.”
- Can you really ever say that a woman would want to have a condition that would kill her if she delivered a child? I seriously doubt that. People generally have this innate FEAR of death. It’s part of what keeps them alive.
You (in your statements) didn’t take into consideration 2 other situations:
- Though I assume you’re grouping rape with incest, you didn’t tackle incest.
- The likelihood that a child will be brought into this world only to die in utter misery and pain. A few weeks ago there was the super-husband who stood up to bullies outside a woman’s health clinic because his wife and he were expecting a second child, one they wanted. That child had something referred to as Mermaid Syndrome. This child wasn’t going to survive. It had a 0% chance. Would you want that mother (or anyone like her) to spend a whole pregnancy carrying around a (basically) dead baby? That’s beyond cruel.
Now, do men have a right to an opinion about abortion? Sure, but as far as being allowed to control what happens between a woman and her OB/GYN, I think that no man has that right. EVER. We would never ask a man to allow a group of women to decide whether he could keep his prostate, his testicles, etc. We wouldn’t decide what medicines he could take. We wouldn’t stand outside a urologist taunting him for going in to have a vasectomy.
But for some odd reason, we as a society have decided that somehow women have this lack of knowledge when it comes to their sexual health. Women can’t choose whether or not to have a child. Women don’t get as good of coverage on gynecological procedures (including pap smears) as men do for urological procedures. Women have to pay out-of-pocket for birth control pills, even if it is for a medical condition, while men get co-pays for their Viagra. It’s not right and it shouldn’t be tolerated.
Now, you think that it is murder for a woman to go out and have an abortion. Fine, think that. No matter how ignorant we can think you’re being, think that, but don’t stop it from happening. Don’t endanger the lives of the women who will go out and have back alley abortions done. Don’t endanger the lives of the women who will be beaten to death by their ignorant family members when they find out that a young woman is pregnant by rape or incest or by her boyfriend. Don’t stand in the way of women being given the opportunity to take a stand and say that this is their body and their choice and that they have every right to make a decision for their own well-being.
You want to have the choice to say no to an abortion, yes? Well, some of us want to have the option to say yes to it.
I never said that a woman puts herself out there to be raped, I never even touched on the subject, I simply said those were two arguments that people give for abortion being Ok. However, if you would really like me to “tackle” all four of your arguments FOR abortion, I will.
1.) Rape. While, yes, I understand why a woman would want to get rid of that baby, does that still make the murder, because it is murder, right? Yes, this woman was wronged in a horrible way, what happened to her was horrific and tragic and I totally understand if she doesn’t want to keep the baby. That’s what adoption is for. That baby did not wrong this woman, that baby wasn’t the one who raped her, and that baby would probably never harm the woman. The only reason the woman is getting an abortion from a rape is so that they won’t have to relive it, so that they won’t have to take care of a child that they already hate. The reason why most woman get abortions because they are raped is out of spite of what has happened to them. That doesn’t make it right, though. Like I said, what happened to them was tragic, but what they’re doing to that baby is also tragic. That baby could go on to lead a wonderful life. Who knows, maybe it would find out what happened to its mother and start up, say, a help group for raped women, change the lives of thousands of people. But there’s that question, who knows? No one knows, until that baby is given a fighting chance.
So a woman should continue a pregnancy from a rape because that baby deserves a fighting chance? Why does someone who is unborn deserve to be treated with more compassion and more respect than a person who has actually been born. I get that you think the abortion is murder, but how would you feel if it were you? Think about it from a different perspective. Don’t think about spite or about murder or anything. Think about the anguish. Think about the pain. Think about fear. Think about everything that that woman is living through. Then, force upon her a constant reminder that she will have for approximately 40 weeks. A reminder that she has to take care of herself in a certain way, for fear that she will be imprisoned because (heaven forbid) one night she decides to get drunk or do something else self-destructive because she’s being forced to carry her attacker’s baby.
2.) Most people have a fear of death, even me, but that also does not excuse murder. Just to put this argument out of the window, statistics show that less than 1% of women die in child labor. So a woman getting an abortion simply because she thinks that she will die, is ludicrous. Not to mention selfish. But I won’t even touch on how this is selfish, because it might offend you.
I’m not discussing just the possibility of dying in childbirth. Maternal mortality extends to at least 6 weeks post-partum, but can include around year post-birth. The World Health Organization believes that the rate of maternal deaths could be 90% more likely, and sometimes around 200% higher than most statistics show. The lifetime risk of death for a woman in a developed region is rather low (1 in 4300), but the risk goes up if the woman lives in poorer areas, has less access to insurance, has poor health, has been diagnosed with a co-morbid disease that is exacerbated by her pregnancy. There is also the possibility that the woman will die because she cannot treat a disease that is unrelated to her pregnancy.
3.) Insest. How did the person not put themselves in this position? I’m sure they knew that having sex with Uncle Joe might lead to pregnancy, and their baby might have a disease from it. So please, give a valid argument for this before I even touch on it. That is actually why I didn’t touch on it, because I don’t see how this point is valid.
Incest is not really a victimless thing. Have you ever heard of child sexual abuse? Pedophilia committed by family members? Fathers/grandfathers/uncles raping their teenage relatives? I don’t think that those girls are really going out their and saying, “Daddy, do me.” Even when the woman is grown, the likelihood of a person agreeing to an incestuous relationship is very low. (Incestuous relationships are typically built upon some level of abuse.)
4.) No baby has a 0% chance of surviving. The only baby that has a 0% chance of surviving, is a miscarriage, in which case the woman doesn’t need an abortion. Yes, doctors may say that the baby has a slim chance of survival, but that’s a chance non the less, and why would you simply give up on a baby that has a fighting chance? We don’t give up on the elderly when they’re about to die, doctors have developed plenty of measures to keep them alive when all hope says they have no chance of living past the next few days, do you know why we do that? Because we value life, because we value giving people the chance to fight for themselves. A baby is no different. Give the baby the chance to prove the doctors wrong, don’t simply give up on it.
When in your 16 years have you received a medical degree? The child that this woman was carrying had a congenital deformity where its legs were fused, it had no bladder, no kidneys. The doctors, in the husband’s own words told them, “there was zero chance for survival.” They did not tell him slim. They told him no chance. And in 50% of cases with the problem that the child had, the result would be a stillbirth. (A stillbirth is when a baby is born already dead. This is different from a miscarriage, which is the body having a spotaneous abortion of a fetus [typically before the 24th week] for any number of reasons.) If the child is born, then it is more than likely going to die within 2 days of its birth. The likelihood of survival is higher if the child is born with at least some kidney tissue or bladder tissue.
You can’t say that that child had a fighting chance. You can’t say that a child that won’t be stillborn. It’s not giving up when they’re going to die anyway. It’s accepting fate. Now, I get valuing life, but sometimes you have to let go.
Aborting a child when it is going to die is like giving up invasive cancer treatments when you know your time is up. If there is no hope, then you accept it. You do not force a child to die painfully. You do not force a woman to give birth to a dead child. That’s pure cruelty.
I’m not saying that men should be able to control women at all. I believe in woman’s rights, all about that shit. However, this picture is saying that men aren’t entitled to an opinion because, “Oh, well, they’ll never be pregnant so why should they be able to say no to abortion?”
Ok, men get treated better than women do. What point is that? It’s been that way since the begining of time, do you think it’s ever really going to change? No. However, that doesn’t stop men from being able to have an opinion on abortion.
The picture shows that men shouldn’t be given the opportunity to control women. Abortion is one of those things that men can have whatever opinion that they want to about, but they shouldn’t decide if it should be done.
As for the idea that men have always been treated better, I don’t really think that’s true. There have been cultures that have revered and feared the women.
Ok, for the sake of my dash and my followers, I’m going to stop my argument about abortion on this. This is not to say that I believe you are right, because ultimately, I stick to my view point. We could argue about this until we’re blue in the face, (or in our case, your fingers fall off (; Js) we’re not going to change each other’s mind. Ultimately, this poster is not about Pro-life or Pro-choice, it’s about anti-abortion leaders being men, and that shouldn’t be allowed, because they’re never going to pregnant. Do you agree?
This is where my problem lies. These men value something, they have a passion for something, they understand something, and they are in the position to do something about what they believe in. Just because they won’t have to make the decision to abort shouldn’t negate their opinions. Do you believe slavery was wrong? Do you agree with the North’s fight to end slavery? Are you happy about how the Civil war ended for the blacks, (other than the fact that they still didn’t have all of their rights)? I’m sure that you answered yes to all of these questions, because slavery is a no-brainier to most today. I’ll let you in on a little secret, the leader of the Civil war, the one who got it all started and rolling, the president at the time that made the South so angry about the North’s not wanting slavery, I’ll tell you something about him: He was a white, wealthy, man who had never been nor would never be a slave. Did that negate his opinion? No. He was simply a man in authority with the recourses to do what need be done. As with these so called “77%” of anti-abortion leaders. Theycan do something about what they believe, so they will something.
I’ll also let you in on another secret: these men weren’t aborted. I think that gives them ample reason to stand up for what they believe in, PRO-LIFE.
I understand that you are planning on ending this, which seems to be a common statement on the interwebz. The problem lies in valuing the positions of these men over women. The problem with this is that women actually should be the ones making the decision.
Now, I would disagree with abortion still if 100% of the leaders were women, but I would feel better if the leaders of the movement were actually people who should be making that decision.
I believe that slavery was wrong, but you have a little bit of a factual error in the questioning. The North didn’t fight to end slavery. They fought to bring the South under control. Lincoln never truly thought he could abolish slavery, and, in some places, made statements that could be interpreted as potentially racist/ignorant. He was able to emancipate the slaves in the South, but the proclamation only was against the rebellious states. If any slavery existed in a non-rebelling state, it would not be effected by the proclamation.
Also, Lincoln couldn’t necessarily know going into the whole situation that he would not be a slave. If you look into things like indentured servitude, you will find that persons of similar heritage had been bought and sold, kept from marrying, subjected to punishments, and forced to work for their own freedom. He could have seen it as a potential threat to someone of his background, especially given his humble roots.
Men today can generally be guaranteed that they will not get pregnant. If they do end up impregnated at some point, it will likely be from a decision that they have made. It will not be something that happens because they lucked out and got a little extra DNA on 1 chromosome.
I think you may not be noticing something about those of us who are pro-choice. We weren’t aborted either. We are people who have lived and learned and realized there is so much more to life than simply being conceived and that there is a dignity that women, as the bearers of children, deserve. These women have been born, given rights, told they are equal, and told that their choices and beliefs are important. We cannot turn our backs on citizens and say that because one day or night a spermatozoa got through an ovum barrier and implanted in uterine lining.